[Guide] NVMe-boot for systems with legacy BIOS and UEFI board (DUET-REFIND)

That “Windows may not be able to boot…” is a warning you may see while attempting to do windows installation on a drive configuration that isn’t supported by MB’s BIOS and current boot configuration.

To be more precise :
I had this on my Socket 939 board that doesn’t support USB booting, when doing Win8 x64 installation on a AHCI M.2 PCI-e drive.
I used Clover on CF card attached to IDE port and Windows installer coudn’t see it.
Basicly : Installer “thought” I won’t be able to boot Windows so it canceled the installation process and deleted all* copied files (*almost).

To bypass this, you have to hard reset PC BEFORE Windows installer starts “undoing things” because of this error.
Otherwise, you will not be able to go ahead with the installation.
Then make sure you configured EFI software and BIOS boot settings correctly, together with hard drive partition and type (MBR/GPT).

As for my attempt to do M.2 PCI-e Legcy boot :
You CAN bypass this on a 64-bit OS by copying GPT boot partion from a working GPT OS drive (“ghost”/hidden partition), and modyfing it in BCD editor like EasyBCD to better suit your drive configuration.
Of course, you have to have a working Clover or DUET booting “patch” for BIOS, regardless of what you do.
This will NOT work on 32-bit OS.
Example :

I managed to create my first How-To video… At least I think its my first, not sure on that. Please forgive the noobness as I first created a 5 minute long video with TinyTake, and that didnt work so well, so I download OBS Studio anyway and sure enough that went perfect, but I got the settings wrong. It suggested I use 720p output when I have a 1440p screen. So I set it to 1440 output and well I now see why. Everything looks kinda small in the video.

I went ahead and captured “how to create the working bootable USB using DISKPART” first, so the video is now 14 minutes. If you know your usb already works, then just skip a head to wherever I start with the DUET creation. Also my PC isn’t copying/pasting into the command prompt for some reason, so I guess that has to do with the recording software running in the background. Sorry.

I hope the video helps someone. Let me know if I need to clarify something. FULL screen it or you may not see what I am doing. LOL




Oh and here is the video of DUET UEFI Bootloader and the REFIND Boot Manager GUI booting up on my PC.

The video is well done @SkOrPn , thanks for it!
I added the YouTube link on the first page :stuck_out_tongue:

Holy crap!
Yeah I gotta check the whole thing out. I am always running around, no time.
Wewt ! now we can help everyone!

@SkOrPn http://camstudio.org/

I like the write up, but i feel the most important part isn’t shown. on text or video, I see nothing about creating bootable os or least how to use it.
Like I’ve created dozens of Bootable Windows 7/10 OS sticks, but using it with DUET = I don’t understand any of it.

Mine is almost there but I am missing a crucial piece. I already set everything to AHCI in bios.
When I turn on my machine with DUET plugged in, it shows Asrock Splash screen, and immediately goes with to loading Entering DXT/ DUET/Memory Test. (shows no specs of system when DUET is plugged in, without duet it shows specs)
It sits at memory test screen for like 2-3 mins then it finally shows DUET screen you showed me, but no OS is shown. (My bootable OS is on my other USB stick)
What do I do with the OS, how do I download it so It can be put into? where in the DUET stick? confused by entire step.

I have the Bootable USB on separate usb stick, I don’t know if I am wrong but I don’t see any information about OS related stuff.
I am confused right after the part where the DUET USB is done.

Like what is next? where do I put the bootable USB/OS installation?
I have both USBs plugged in. 1 with OS and 1 with DUET and the blank m.2 PM951 MZ-FLV2560 Via PCI EXPRESS.
After memory screen now, it seems to freeze at windows 10 logo with other bootable OS usb is plugged in.
It will randomly show the Windows 10 Logo like it’s going to start but never goes into windows installer when duet is in the other USB port.
If Duet stick is removed I can go all the way into windows 10 installer but not install os on the drive shown obviously. (on windows installation you will see the 250gb ssd, but cannot continue)

So please tell me at what point you move the Windows OS into the DUET drive?
Yeah I don’t see any information about the OS part and where to put it so it shows that screen you have.

Please forgive me I am NOT trying to be rude… BUT!

We didn’t show the bootable OS install creation because that is ALWAYS assumed that you already know how to do that part. FYI, this thread isn’t about how to make OS install media. This thread is for using OS on NVMe drives on much older systems. There is hundreds of How-To’s on making UEFI based Windows OS installer already all over the world. We do not cover that subject here… However, I guess I will make a video for that too. Give me some time please.

Answers to your questions above…
1. After you create the OS installer, you PUT IT IN A USB PORT, LOL…
2. You also put the DUET USB in ANOTHER port obviously.
3. You now turn on the Computer and boot up to DUET from the DUET drive you made earlier.
4. Once DUET boots up and is sitting at its main screen you now click on the Microsoft Windows 10 installer USB disk that you just created earlier (I use Rufus).

Why are we having to show you super common sense stuff? If you are a complete novice at all of this you really should tell us upfront please. We mortal human beings do not posses ESP so I can’t possibly know your level of tech knowledge. None of this in this thread is difficult to understand, not one bit of it.

Instructions are simple
1. Make DUET usb.
2. Make Windows usb
3. Install both USB in two USB ports.
4. Turn on machine
5. Select DUET as boot drive, or make it default boot drive.
6. When at DUET screen select Windows installer as shown above.
7. When Windows installer is running, select your NVMe drive to install Windows as per normal.
8. Let Windows finish installing.
9. Enjoy Windows on NVMe on a older system that does not support UEFI or NVMe!
10. PROFIT!

What can possibly be hard about this? I will be back shortly with a video on making OS installer.

P.S. I will try to help in PM also, or maybe with TeamViewer too, just PM me if you need more help.
P.S.S. Maybe I should record the ENTIRE process using my webcam from behind me pointed at my screens? Would that be better?

@SkOrPn

It’s a normal OS install, following the WIZARD at the end should do it.


@1xstealthx1

All you need to do is run the OS installer from the REFIND user interface.
There should be a big icon with the window 10 logo, or something on your screen.
The Windows10 USB, for starter, can be made easily with the MEDIA CREATION TOOL.
If you are looking to install other OS, watch out for their instruction.

About the DUET memory test screen, no clue. How much memory are we talking? is it any good? :smiley:
Try to load the DEFAULT BIOS configuration from your motherboard because it should supposedly take way less, if not seconds…

OK, this GUIDE is ONLY for people who want to boot an OS from a NVMe SSD on a old Legacy BIOS machine. As the title of this thread states, it is for NVMe support for old Systems. I hope this post helps someone.

This took me all day to figure out and after 3 or 4 failed attempts, deleted videos, and trying different software I finally think I figured it out sorta. I lost a complete business day too doing this :confused:

First video is below and it shows how to create a Windows 10 USB Installer AND how to get a proper Windows 10 ISO. It also shows me creating the DUET with REFIND USB disk also. About as simple as it gets. It should take no more than 20 minutes tops to get all this sorted and done.

This video was created using OBS Studio and it is a screen recording. (I hate my voice on recordings)




Second video is me booting DUET w/REFIND so we can click on the Windows 10 installer and install Windows onto NVMe SSD.

This video is recorded using an old Olympus point and shoot because my Logitech C920 would not focus no matter how many hours I tried to get it to focus. And I sold my GoPro HERO thinking I didn’t need it any more, lol. Ignore the glossy of this screen please.

EDIT: I now realize the camera was too close to the screen. Also, not sure why it is dark as it was sunny out and I am right next to a window. Also, I was expecting to see the name of the disk drive, and simply forgot that on this old machine I have to set it to “Removable Device”. I would have to reboot just to get to show the duet drive in my bios, so I decided to just use F8 and selected the drive manually as seen in the video to save a little bit of time. Sorry about that but anyone should already know how to set their USB as default bootup device… I also realize I should have clicked on the blue logo to show you Windows 10 booting up, but that is a given as we all know what it looks like, lol.


This image is what we could see if no OS is installed yet. The three DOT’s in the middle is the ESD-ISO (Windows 10 installer) so just click on it so Windows 10 will install.



This image below is what we would see if you now have Windows 10 installed but you forgot to remove the Windows 10 usb installer. The blue Windows logo is Windows installed already because that is what you did earlier.



This image is what we would see with ONLY Windows 10 installed and nothing else bootable present. But try and remember there are different Logos for different OS’s, such as Linux etc. Its all really self explanatory for the most part.



Again the end result is a nice OS install on NVMe SSD on a very old Legacy BIOS computer. A.K.A. It makes your machine go faster… So now you just always boot set your machines bios to boot to DUET w/REFIND and REFIND will automatically boot Windows 10 for you after a 5 seconds.

THE END! Roll Credits Please… and yes I know I suck at making videos and yes I know my voice sounds awful, lol. But its the thought that counts. Right?

@noInk

Yeah I think I got somewhat a better GUIDE now. I cant invest a lot of time becoming an expert video editor. I mean I could learn it just fine, but not for just this. I am at a loss as to why this is hard for someone. Maybe TeamViewer and a phone call would be better, lol. UNLESS they are expecting a different outcome, or maybe they do not realize what this thread or what DUET and REFIND is for? I am guessing that is the issue. Today I managed to create DUET and Windows 10 and install it all in about 15 minutes flat I think.

You create the USB’s, you boot the machine to DUET/REFIND, you install windows and your done. You now can boot Windows from NVMe on very old computer. Where is the user getting lost at???

@SkOrPn

That’s a lot of work you put on the making of this video!
With your permission I’m gonna add the first one on the info at the first page.

Anyway, is the .NET application (USBSetup) causing issue on your end since you didn’t use it? should be even easier since it’s few click away to make the DUET/REFIND USB.

@noInk

I didn’t use it because it isn’t tried and true. Command prompt is what we should teach to the noob techs. If I wasn’t in a hurry I should have also shown that, sorry, but I am just too busy at the moment and my mind is on other things. Today I have to work on something else but I promise I will be back soon.

Your Crazy in good way for posting so fast lol.
I will get to the rest. But SKorpn.

But…
I had them both connected. I stated I didn’t see it show up.
I build tons of computers. I didn’t attempt my Windows 7 that was made on rufus.
I only tried my Windows 10 on that I think was created from windows tool. I completely forgot about this, if it matters.
Reading the rest now.

If I am lucky sometimes I see this when both USB sticks are plugged in.
on X58
http://i67.tinypic.com/2jdm3qq.jpg

So what does this screen mean? Mine is missing the top section of it.
and just shows an Arrow.

I probably have built 100 machines+ on this 1 Windows 10 USB. (i updated it a few times) and 2,000 on my Windows 7 one I can’t recall if it was made on rufus or Windows tool. Do they make a different for DUET? When I have time I will try my Windows 7 that I believe was made on Rufus.
after the image I’ve shown sometimes it goes into windows 10 without me clicking anything after and sits at windows logo and the circle never appears, even after like 10 mins.

@1xstealthx1

That’s mean there nothing bootable attached on the USB port ( or anywhere else for that matter ) or you need to manually HIT the ESC Key, since REFIND isn’t actively checking the host USB port status.
( perhaps I changed the refresh KEY somewhere down the line, or didn’t implemented the change or some type of regression )

If you are sure there an USB disk attached, and… you DID attached it afterward getting on that screen: HIT the ESC key from your keyboard to refresh the view.

Esc key, Ill try that.

But When I remove the DUET USB.
My Windows bootable OS has no issues going in quickly.

I will try esc to see if it refreshes or something.

You must install WINDOWS in UEFI else it won’t shown there.
To install windows in UEFI do it trough DUET/REFIND.
INSTALL that OS LOL

Ok default bios settings and now i saw the 3 circles come up this time and now I clicked on it.

It starts windows logo. I am wondering how long I should wait for the revolving circle to appear, usually it would already spin by now.

I see the 3 dots but when i click on it, it shows Windows 10 starting logo. but the circle never spins under it.
I restarted and I am sitting at the DUET screen with the green, pink, blue circle.

And the Windows 7 USB didn’t get picked up. (used it to test)

this is my face right now.

I have no clue, on mine X58 it does after a while and as far I recall it’s SUPER QUICK!
What GPU are you using, does it support UEFI?

ITs X58 asrock extreme
https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/X58%20Extreme/index.asp

I7 and just random GTX 750 Ti at the moment. I have a ton of cards.

Should i try changing something in the OS now?
Also you’ve been a ton of help, I actually see the three colored circles now… before it was just blank with arrow.

grabbing a GTX 1060 now, then I will try HD7570.

If you make the WINDOWS 10 USB DISK with the MEDIA CREATION TOOL it should work straight without USER intervention.
The installer should bring you on the desktop after it’s done setting it’s thing up.

For WINDOWS 7 there are some changes to be made to bring it on the UEFI the installer.
The GTX 750 should support UEFI.

Since you are talking about endless circle spin… check on the RAID (ICH) or something in conflict with the SATA, again which NVME are you using? :smiley:
or I get it right and the circle doesn’t even spin?