EDIT THIS APPLIES MAINLY FOR INSTALLING WINDOWS 8/8.1 ON ASUS LAPTOPS UPGRADED WITH AN SSD!!! EDIT
AIMED AT 4K PERFORMANCE
Hey All!!!
I´m starting this thread with the goal of clearing up some misconceptions about the “Preferred” Win8/8.1 installation method on SSD´s… I have come to discover some interesting results! Here’s some background information… A have an Asus K55A notebook which I upgraded with a 250GB Samsung 840 SSD… Specs are an Intel Core i3-3110M CPU, HM76/ 7-Series/C216 Chipset, 8GB (2x 4GB) DDR3-PC12800 1600MHz running a Clean installed Win8.1 Pro RTM (x64) To my surprise I always seemed to suffer poor SSD performance from the beginning… Couldn´t really ever figure out why… I ran thru ALL available Intel RST drivers… From v11.5 up to v12.9 with no real improvement… I wasn’t getting anywhere near the advertised specs and rates for the 840 SSD… I also unlocked additional P & C-States, Parking and so on… I went thru pains of unlocking my UEFI/BIOS and messing around with settings that ended up bricking my notebook TWICE!!! I researched countless Tweaks and Win8.1 settings looking for a solution… Ultimately nothing seemed to solve the riddle… I also tested various NTFS Cluster Sizes… 512, 1024, 4096… up to 64KB… Different sizes for the EFI Partition, Recovery, C: and D: Partitions too… Making sure everything was 4K aligned and so on… I also tried various Over Provisioning spaces… Also excluding D: Partition as well… NOTHING provided answers or insight as to the cause… I always Serure Erased the SSD using Samsung Magician previous to each install… Still coming up short in performance… A few days ago I purchased an Asus S451LN VivoBook for my wife… And installed the same SSD I had in my K55A… Now… Again I Clean installed Win8.1 Pro like usual… And noticed the same exact lack of performance!!! Now this one has an Intel Core i5-4200U, 8 Series Chipset and 6GB DDR3 1600MHz Ram… So how could this be??? Just for kicks I tried something new… Something I had never tried before mainly because it’s not the “Preferred” installation method and is supposed to cause more problems than benefits… I used Asus Backtracker and created a Recovery USB Drive from the OEM Win8.1 1TB HDD… And installed the OEM Recovery Image on to the SSD… The install was pretty fast and it partitioned the SSD accordingly with its reduced size… I might add that with this method I cannot use any Over Provisioning due to the Restore Partition at the end of the SSD… So I opted not to install Magician… Now, I’m fully aware that this came at a cost of having “Bloatware” and so on… I immediately proceeded to run CrystalDiskMark and benchmark the SSD… Guess what??? I’m now getting BETTER THAN ADVERTISED PERFORMANCE!!! I must admit that I have no idea as to the answer… But I assume that Asus modifies the Windows install, drivers and registry in a way allowing the correct functionality of the system… I have run in to some ahci.reg files other files that point to AHCI functions… Let me provide some comparisons…
Here’s before (This is a Clean Install with C1E DISABLED with C-P-State Tweaks, 23.29GB OP)
This is a more accurate example from before… (With numerous tweaks…) [[File:C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_f16t330p5391n4(1).png|none|fullsize]]
Now here’s after (The OEM Recovery Install, NO OP & No other tweaks or changes!)
So in conclusion… It may be that a “Clean” Win8/8.1 RTM install is NOT the “BEST” method after all!!! That’s my opinion and may not always apply as the solution… But it may very well be the cause of SO MANY SSD users on countless forums being impacted by poor SSD performance and not finding any answers!!! I welcome all input and comments on this matter!!! Give this a try… and compare your results!!!
@ @JSebastian: Thanks for your interesting performance comparison between a fresh “clean” OS installation by booting off the latest official Win8.1 ISO build and a recovery of the original Win8.1 partition, which had been created by the OEM manufacturer ASUS. Here is my comment:
Your tip is only valid for owners of a brandnew OEM system, which has been delivered by the vendor with the latest version of Windows 8.1 (actually: Spring Update 2014) and doesn’t contain too much software crap (bloatware).
Since the manufacturer employees, who install the original OS and Recovery partitions onto their OEM products from scratch, are no magicians, each user should be able to get at least the same performance by doing a fresh “clean” OS install and some additional optimization settings (look >here<).
I agree… I edited my original post and title… Although I find it really odd that a clean install of Win8.1 RTM ISO should suffer… Especially without the "Bloatware" whether its the Spring 2014 Update 1 version or not… I am continueing to dig deeper into what exact modifications are made to the INSTALL.WIM by Asus and share my findings… As you too have probably seen all over many forums… Threads about low 4K R/W performance for SSD users… The vast majority detail problems after "Clean" installations of Win8/81… I am of course focusing on laptop users… Because PC’s have the advantage of RAID, dedicated SATA Controllers and have far less limitations impacting performance when compared to the limitations with laptops…
You’re right! Users should get at least the same performance when "Clean" instaslling Win8.1… But for many laptop users upgrading to SSD’s that’s not always the case… Again, poor 4K performance… And the "Tweaking" begins… That most commonly only improves performance by a fraction of the full capability… I believe that laptop users shouldn’t have to resort to drastic measure as I had to (unnecessarily I might add!!) Having to disable C1E for example… @lordkag warned me and was very clear with his advice… And I didn’t listen… LOL… Now I am greatful for his advise and should have listened the first time…
I think it might have something to do with how they modify IRST drivers & their installation… You see with Asus provided IRST drivers they include additional files… There’s unOEMDrv.exe, IRSTPatch.exe, OverWriteSys.exe, PNPINST64.exe, PostPatch.cmd, PrePatch.cmd and 2KSETUP.INI… Their is a certain order and steps needed to correctly install the IRST drivers for them to function correctly I believe… I also believe that there are some other changes made to Windows Registry that may also have an effect… I will post more findings shortly… But I mean whether I choose to install Windows by an OEM Recovery USB or a fresh "Clean" install by RTM ISO… I should not have such a significant impact on SSD performance like I had… Additionally… With my "Clean" Win8.1 ISO install my SSD temp was always around 32°C-35°C… Now with the OEM Recovery install my SSD is idle at 24°C and reaches 29°C under load… There are many differences I have noticed between the 2 installation methods… But I have to admit, in my case, my opinion is that for Asus Notebooks upgraded with an SSD I would recommend creating a Recovery USB using Asus Backtracker if supported my the target notebook… Possibly also relying on "Migration" software provided by the SSD manufacturer (I haven’t tested this method due to possible issues when cloning a larger HDD to a smaller SSD and the difference in Sector size i.e. 512-native, Advanced Format 512e & Advanced Format 4K-native…) I suppose one can consider my Win8.1 install a fresh "Clean" OEM Installation… Since basically I started with the factory OEM install Image and a clean SSD… I mean it wasn’t a captured System Image… It was the "Factory" fresh installation method… When one unboxes their notebook and goes thru the OOBE when turned on for the first time… Anyways I now have seen that Asus in-fact does have a purpose with at least some of their "Bloatware" i.e. ATK Package and Power4Gear Hybrid… More precisely to how they setup the Windows installation with their "modifications."
That is an interesting find. Can you give me a link to such IRST driverpack delivered by ASUS? By the way: I have an Intel HM76 Express chipset ASUS F200CA notebook, which natively had a 500 GB HDD running Windows 8 x64 in AHCI mode. In April this year I replaced the HDD by a 250 GB sized Intel 510 SSD, done a clean install of the Win8.1 x64 Spring Update Edition and the performance settings for AHCI systems I have posted >here<. Now I have a notebook, which boots within a few seconds and is much more performant than the original system.
Here’s the link for my S451LN IRST driver pack >Link< Which includes the additional files I mentioned earlier… I hope you can decode their purpose and/or function better than I.
I have come across additional SSD tweaks that you might already know about >Here< I also have both Cache options selected for my SSD and High Performance Power Plan selected… I ran WinSat so Win8.1 configures the correct settings for an SSD… i.e. removing Superfetch from the registry and I set Prefetcher to "0" manually… I disabled Indexing for C: including Sub-Folders and Files… I did leave Windows Search on only because I stream media from my laptop to my Smart TV and that requires Search to be enabled… I also set the Pagefile size to Min=200, Max=2048 as recommended by Samsung Magician…
Here’s an optional tweak for speeding Win8.1 a bit more… In Windows registry go to \HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Desktop\ Now find the String "MenuShowDelay" and set it to "200" Also you can go to \HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\ and add the Key "Serialize" then DWORD "StartupDelayInMSec"="0" Which eliminates the standard startup loading delay for desktop programs…
As far as performance goes with the OEM Recovery Install method… I am getting reliable, consistant and expected 4K performance… Where as before with the Clean Install from the RTM ISO… I had about 50 MB/s 4K-QD1 Write max! That’s less than 1/2 of the current 4K-QD1 Write speeds of 110 MB/s… And thats without disabling C1E or SpeedStep!!! Same goes for the 4K-QD32 & QD64 rates… plus my Access times dropped by 60%… So there has to be something in Win8.1 that’s modified by Asus for their laptops when comparing to the "Stock" RTM ISO… At least pertaining to Asus Notebooks…
EDIT What’s interesting in my case with the OEM Recovery Win8.1 Install method is that it completely partitioned my SSD… 1: EFI, 2: Recovery, 3: MSR, 4: C: "OS", 5: D: "DATA" and 6: Restore Partition… So I can’t use Over Provisioning with Magician… Hence, I didn’t install Magician so it wouldn’t mess with the last Restore partition since there is no free space available… And I’m getting better performance than before… Shouldn’t it be the other way around??? According to Samsung, for the "Basic" 840 SSD needs the OP since it lacks the "Rapid" feature… Food for thought…
Meanwhile I have done a look into the additional files, which had been added by ASUS to the Intel RST driver v12.8.0.1016, but I couldn’t find anything, what may boost the performance of the driver.
You’re welcome! I would appreciate your input! Now, with this IRST driver pack from the link, I believe the following is the intended order of execution:
1: PrePatch.bat 2: Reboot system 3: Setup.bat 4: Reboot system 5: PostPatch.bat 6: Reboot system
Would you agree with the sequence? Another thing I have found in the registry key for iaStorA>Parameters is that "IoLatencyCap" & "IoTimeoutValue" entries are gone… With the Clean Win8.1 RTM ISO install those 2 entries were always present under iaStorA>Parameters key… Might those entries effect performance either positively or negatively? I really would like to get a better understanding of how Asus provided IRST driver packs differ from Intel’s Download Center provided IRST drivers… Obviously the Asus drivers have the additional files… but why? Please let me know what your findings are Fernando! Thx again!
Hey, after some digging around the IRSTPatch.exe code I found a reference to a log file in Windows Log directory… Here’s what the IRSTPatch log file shows:
[2014/04/09 06:44:39] Open AsToolCDVer file succeeded!. [2014/04/09 06:44:39] Print TOOL_NB64_W8GPT_V1.0.5 from C:\Windows\AsToolCDVer.txt [2014/04/09 06:44:39] szValueIRST = ASUS_RAID0
A while back I had come across the “ASUS_RAID0” but in Event Viewer… Back when I had the Clean RTM ISO install… I remember Events detailing “ASUS_RAID0” being reset and also something about an incorrect location path or a missing “ASUS_RAID0” partition… Maybe that’s the key! Could it be that somehow Asus added RAID0 functionality on their notebooks??? I say this because back when @lordkag was proving that the HM76 isn’t RAID capable and I was unlocking my K55A BIOS… Here’s a screenshot of my S451LN BIOS detailing RAID0 & 1 capability…
The question is, how is RAID0 configured and how can I prove it? Since I cannot really come to a better conclusion as to the enormous 4K performance difference as well as performance in general… Any thoughts? I will continue to dig deeper and share my findings ok!
Thanks for your intensive investigations regarding the reason of the performance boost you got with your notebook by using the ASUS Recovery option. I don’t know, if it is important, but I want to let you know, that ASUS did never offer any Intel RST driver on their Support site (>LINK<) for my ASUS Notebook F200CA (Chipset: Intel® HM76/HM70 Express, OS: Win 8.1 x64), which I had bought in September last year.
Thanks for the link! I find I odd that ASUS would only provide IRST drivers for certain models… Especially more recent models. My 1st ASUS Notebook was an X54C which I bought 3 years ago and ASUS did provide IRST drivers. Then last year I got the K55A again ASUS provided IRST drivers… Now my S451LN as well… What I have discovered only adds to my speculation that ASUS makes interesting alterations to Notebook hardware and its functionality that goes beyond what’s "Public Knowledge" about said hardware. Which might explain why certain notebook BIOS show as being RAID0 capable and enabled, now add what I found about the IRSTPatch also referencing RAID0… When mobile or express HM76 or HM87 including other chipsets aren’t capable of supporting RAID… But what else would explain my performance boost and references about RAID0?
I might have just stumbled across the "answer" to many reported SSD performance issues when upgrading to an SSD and doing a "Clean" Win8/8.1 install from an RTM ISO… So far I can only make this assumption pertaining only for some ASUS notebooks… I’m not sure I any other manufacturers which provide modified IRST drivers for their notebooks similar to what ASUS modifies… Interesting to say the least…
ASUS doesn’t alter the hardware of their notebooks, but they may optimize them. The RAID entries you found may have something to do with the Intel(R) Rapid Start Technology (look >here<), where a small sized SSD running in RAID mode is used for data caching, whereas the OS containing system drive is an HDD. This technology has been very popular especially for notebooks as long as bigger sized SSDs were very expensive.
ASUS does not modify the IRST drivers, but what they may do is to boost the measurable performance by data caching similar to the "RAPID mode" of Samsung’s Magician. The question is, if it gives the users just better benchmark scores or really a noticeable better performance wjhile doing their daily work. As an example you may look >here<, where I have published my recent AHCI benchmark results with and without RAPID mode. Without RAPID mode I got an overall AS_SSD score of 1129 points, whereas I got 54.620 points after having enabled the RAPID mode data caching, but without realizing any performance boost while doing my usual PC work.
You have a point! i may have jumped the gun a bit… It hadn’t occured to me that "Intel(R) Rapid start Technology" might have something to do with this… ASUS renamed it to "InstantOn" and incorporates it with their "Power4Gear Hybrid" technology… My question is HOW its implemented for notebooks with a single HDD or SSD (in my case.) I had tested Rapid Start with my K55A before but could never figure out how and if it was working correctly… I had created the "Hibernation" partition but like i said I have a sigle drive system… From the documentation I need 2 drives… there has never been a "Hibernation" partition on any of my ASUS Notebooks… And they all came with ASUS InstantOn… For example my S451LN came with a single 1 TB HDD ok… There is an variant of this model that comes with an additional 6 GB or 8 GB SSD for caching… So is that what the IRSTPatch is intended for? The small SSD would be the "ASUS_RAID0" correct? How then would that apply on a sigle drive system?
Ok I understand… So would disabling "Windows Data Cache Flushing" apply for my case? Or should I uncheck that option? Given how ASUS has optimized IRST with the additions for the driver installation…
Usually disabling the write-cache buffer flushing (=checking the option) boosts the write performance significantly. Try it and compare the benchmark results!
Hey Fernando! As we expected, I get better benchmark results by disabling write-cache buffer flushing… I have a question for you, again touching on the ASUS provided IRST drivers… As you have seen with the additional installation files included are "rstcli.exe" & "rstcli64.exe" I did some research and now I am aware about Intel® RST CLI (Command Line Interface) Which I did not know about before… Here’s the documentation I found > LINK < And here’s what I find on the Intel® Download Center > LINK < My question to you is if you have any experience with RST CLI? As to its use and implementation? I’m interested mainly because I might update my IRST drivers and I can only conclude that ASUS included the additional installation files with a specific purpose, I want to update as correctly as possible… I have already experienced the side-effects with poor performance and would like to avoid messing things up! Now we can agree that I’m not running RAID so would you have an idea as to the intended setup process of the additional ASUS IRST files? You see I have my doubts that in my case it might not be as simple as just updating IRST drivers from Device Manger… Do I need to use the "rstcli64.exe" lets say booting to WinRE or PE since I’m running Win8.1 in UEFI Mode? Or possibly use DISM to add the drivers? I would appreciate any advice you might have on this matter!!! Thx!!!
Thanks for your additional informations and the links. Here is my comment: All these tools from ASUS and Intel are using the so-called Intel(R) Smart Response Technology, which requires either a combination of a HDD (as system drive) and an SSD (just for data caching) or an SSHD, which is a hybrid drive and actually built into many notebooks. According to my knowledge the use of a good and well performing SSD like the Samsung 840/850 PRO or 840 EVO as system drive is a better solution than to install the OS onto a HDD and use the SSD just for data caching. As I already told you: This technology is a compromize especially for notebooks, because the majority of the customers want a cheap, but nevertheless performant notebook, and not an expensive one with a big sized SSD, which may have a better performance.
I understand from what you had previously mentioned along with my research detailed about Intel® Smart Response… Please forgive my confusion… Basically, the majority of the additional Installation files included in the ASUS IRST drivers, DON’T APPLY for my particular variant of S451LN… Correct? Since as far as I know I don’t have a SSHD or additional SSD that’s built-in… My variant is the i5-4200U + 1 TB 5400RPM SATA HDD… Here’s the link for the available options > LINK < showing optional HDD configurations… some added with an 8 GB SSD (SSHD?) So what would be your "Recommendation" for updating my IRST drivers? From Device Manager using Intel® downloaded drivers like normal? Lastly, should I update to the latest IRST v12.8.x… v12.9.x… or can I try any of the v13.x series? Given that I have an 8 Series Chipset Family… My concern is the Hardware ID’s I have show this ->
SATA AHCI Controller: PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_9C03&SUBSYS_139D1043&REV_04\3&11583659&1&FA… The DEV starts with "9"
I’m having some driver issues for some reason… Since I have Haswell-ULT IMC + Lynx Point-LP (Premium SKU)… There is no HM8x/QM8x… How can I be sure if any IRST v13.x are supported? Or if I need the "Modified" drivers? All my confusion is caused because from what I think I know is the "9" in the beginning of all my DEV_ID’s points to X9x Chipsets… Or am I wrong?
UPDATE
I did more research in to RST CLI and also tried ASUS online support chat to see what their explanation was about the added files… etc… ASUS at first didn’t know what I was talking about… They insisted there was only a Setup.exe and that was all I had to run… After I further explained… ASUS told me that I only had to run rstcli64.exe from an Admin Command Prompt… Which I later discovered doesn’t install anything… Here’s info from the README:
1. OVERVIEW *
Intel(R) Rapid Storage Technology (Intel(R) RST) for CLI is a command line utility used to perform basic RAID operations on RAID-enabled systems. Intel(R) RST for CLI supports RAID 0, RAID 1, RAID 5 and RAID 10 volumes. Intel(R) RST for CLI supports the following functionality: - Creating RAID volumes including recovery volumes and arrays using the Create mode - Viewing properties of disks, volumes, arrays, and controllers using the Information mode - Managing RAID volumes, arrays, and disks using the Manage mode - Modifying existing volumes using the Modify mode - Accelerating a disk or volume with a specified SSD using the Accelerate mode
Here’s what it shows by running "rstcli64.exe -I":
Since I haven’t dealt much with RAID… I assume that RST CLI is basically the same thing as pressing "Ctrl+I" when booting, right? Now the image above says I do support RAID0,1,5 & 10… Which BTW also matches what the BIOS image shows in SATA Configuration with AMIBCP… That RAID0 & 1 are "Enabled" BUT as you have so clearly pointed out, that’s if I had an HDD+SSD or SSHD… I might not be understanding all this or I might just be blind… But how does it apply to my case either with the factory HDD or my SSD??? Regardless of which I use its still a "Single" drive setup… I’m getting really lost and confused…
Your notebook has an Intel 8-Series chipset. So you can use any of the original Intel RST(e) drivers from the v13.x.x.xxxx series. My personal recommendation for your system is to take the Intel RST(e) diver v13.1.0.1058 WHQL.
I agree with you, that the consecutive numbering of Intel’s DeviceIDs is somehow irritating, but the first number of the Intel SATA AHCI Controllers DeviceIDs has nothing to do with the chipset. Here is the list of Intel’s 8- and 9-Series Chipset SATA AHCI Controllers and their DeviceIDs:
DEV_8C02&CC_0106 = "Intel(R) 8 Series/C220 Chipset Family Desktop SATA AHCI Controller"
DEV_8C03&CC_0106 = "Intel(R) 8 Series Chipset Family Mobile SATA AHCI Controller"
DEV_9C02&CC_0106 = "Intel(R) 8 Series/C220 Chipset Family Desktop SATA AHCI Controller"
DEV_9C03&CC_0106 = "Intel(R) 8 Series Chipset Family Mobile SATA AHCI Controller"
DEV_8C82&CC_0106.= "Intel(R) 9 Series Chipset Family SATA AHCI Controller"
DEV_8C83&CC_0106 = "Intel(R) 9 Series Chipset Family SATA AHCI Controller"
