Since I don’t want to waste your time. Wouldn’t it be better to test the original (latest) BIOS from MSI first this evening? If that does actually work we can always look further after it. But I am cool with it. I already appreciate the fact that you are looking into this. I only noticed the "ME Version: N/A" yesterday, because I was double checking every setting. Otherwise I would doubt that I would ever had noticed this.
And yes, the MSI BIOS files are annoying. They all come in an .exe, as a result I have had several bad flashes in the past with this motherboard, BUT I can always fix them, thanks to the 2 backup BIOS and do a cross flash. I think the .exe also always contains some stuff related to the Intel ME, but I am not sure about this though.
If I am not mistaken (I have so many BIOS files now, which doesn’t make things funny anymore) the "original" MSI BIOS file is: E7737IMS.280.rar I also included the modded version (through UBU), which I called: mod_E7737IMS.280.rar Just for "fun" I also included the "original" previous version, which is: E7737IMS.271.rar
Anyways, as said before; I will just flash the original BIOS tonight when I get back home from work to see if Windows 8 will finally install on my RAID 0. …in the meantime I have a created a new bootable USB stick with Rufus with Windows 8.1 on it and did scan it for errors also.
Alright, I can confirm what I suspected. UBU does not interfere with the ME, both images from stock and modded BIOS are identical.
I suggest you apply the stock BIOS and check if you are having any issues installing Windows or viewing the ME at BIOS menu.
Since the ME is not the problem, I then suggest you check what action while modding is causing your issue.
Also keep in mind that while updating the Microcode with UBU you can either choose SB or IVB. Not both. So if you are using a SB cpu choose the SB otherwise the IVB microcodes. It’s a free space related issue according to UBU’s developer, SoniX.
After the issue is found & solved, you can visit my ME thread to update your ME firmware from 8.1.50.1456 to 8.1.52.1496.
Yeah, I know about the CPU Microcode. I am using Ivy-Bridge (4930K), so I am sure I am using the good version. On a sidenote; I also tried yesterday or the day before that a BIOS where I only updated the Intel RST ROM, nothing else. Didn’t do much difference, still the same problem.
Anyways, so if I understand correctly, ME is always included in those files? Sorta speak; it’s inside 8192kb file? If that’s the case, I am starting to suspect the way of flashing files is the culprit here which ruins the ME.
(the below is from my memory, cannot 100% confirm it at the moment ofcourse)
I am pretty sure; if I use boot my Windows 7 embedded USB stick and run the .exe from the MSI BIOS (= original BIOS) it will display the ME Version in the BIOS upon reboot. The following I am not so sure off: if I flash with the MSI HQ Flashing utility (which comes recommended) and I reboot ME Version will show N/A in the BIOS, however I only did this with modded BIOS versions and never with a original BIOS (no need for it, so why try it).
There is a 3rd option to flash the BIOS, which is inside the MSI BIOS and is called M-Flash, HOWEVER I have had a couple of bad experiences with it, one of them being that the machine rebooted automatically and went beserk (on/off/on/off/on/off rapidly). I can only fix this by switching BIOS jumper (to backup BIOS) run the MSI HQ Flash util, switch the BIOS jumper back and reflash (cross flash) with a working BIOS.
Are there any other recommended tools for MSI in regards to BIOS flashing + ME? I don’t know of any other to be honest, other than the ones I mentioned (official MSI .exe, MSI HQ Flash Tool or MSI BIOS M-Flash). Maybe I should retry M-Flash again later today, but if I recall correctly, I had several bad experiences with that, but might have been a bad BIOS file also, really don’t recall…
Anyways, thank you for testing. We now know it’s not UBU. Which pins it down to flashing technique or I have to use the original MSI BIOS .exe.
//update #1
Uhmzz… If I recall correctly, there was someone else on this forum with the same motherboard who also used UBU. Might have to respond there also and let him check his ME Version. Might be interesting. Never mind, was a different motherboard.
//update #2
FYI: I found some weird MSI manual to setup RAID (in UEFI) under EFI Shell. Never thought this was possible; the only ways I know of so far were; trough the BIOS (also UEFI) and through CTRL-I (Legacy). So this is something completely new for me. Will give that a go also. Oh btw; the BIOS option to configure RAID (from within the UEFI BIOS) doesn’t show up automatically. It only shows up when I select Windows 8/8.1 boot option. Then I reboot and get a message that my videocard GTX 970 (= Gigabyte equals lazy) is not suited, something about GOP and I have to press F1. Though it won’t boot, the option to setup RAID in there is suddenly there. Without fooling around with the Windows 8/8.1 boot option, it wouldn’t show. Strange. :S
(didn’t want to mess up the threads, by continously re-editing my post over and over)
Anyways, here is what I am going to do this evening when I get back (which will be a bit later, because I have to give my condolences to a friend of mine also first);
Step #1 I am going to flash my BIOS back with the original (and latest) .exe from MSI through that USB stick with embedded Win 7 on it. That way I am certain it will show the ME Version in the BIOS again.
Step #2 After that and one or two reboots later, I will flash the BIOS with a UBU modded BIOS-file from within the BIOS GUI, by using M-Flash. And see what happens then.
I’ve been thinking hard about this and I know “Step #1” works for sure, because I already did that. It will flash correctly + it will show ME Version 8.1.50.x.x.x or something again in the BIOS. Now, as I mentioned before, I had some bad experiences with ‘M-Flash’ previously, but coming to think of it, maybe it was displaying ME Version: N/A back then and therefor it messed things up (famous on/off/on/off-sequence reboot).
If that doesn’t work for whatever reason, somehow got a positive feeling about it though, I will revert back to “Step #1” and stick by it.
Ofcourse this doesn’t mean Windows 8.1 will install correctly, but I think the problems I am experiencing with Intel ME version not showing up correctly might have something to do with it. I do have a backup plan, if Windows 8.1 keeps failing to install (first after “Step #2” and then after “Step #1”), however I rather not use it. This will mean back to my (single) 840 PRO SSD and Windows 7 x64.
Also, if I don’t forget, I will take a few pictures of everything. Might help someone else in the future, if I can fix it this way. The least I can do, since I am also being helped here.
How do you want install Win8.1: In UEFI mode using the GUID Partition Table (GPT) or in LEGACY mode creating the usual Master Boot Record (MBR)? I ask this, because both methods are using a different Intel RAID module for the management of your RAID0 array (UEFI mode: EFI RaidDriver, LEGACY mode: Intel RAID ROM module).
Thanks Fernando, after the many things you have told me, I now know how I am going to install the RAID 0. Sorry for the confusion earlier the other day, but I understand it all now quite a bit better.
It will be ofcourse be through UEFI mode (Win 8.1 USB stick is GPT for UEFI based, thanks to your recommendation about Rufus).
Now I will still have 2 ways to set up the RAID 0 in UEFI;
1. Through the MSI BIOS (= UEFI) 2. Through EFI shell (= also UEFI)
Never used the 2nd one before, but I am gonna try that.
The reason for this, is that I can only get the BIOS option to configure a RAID array to show, by selecting Windows 8/8.1 Boot from there. But when I do this, I get an error about the GOP driver from my videocard or something. However after a reboot and pressing F1 the RAID configuring options are there. So that’s why I am going to try it first through the EFI Shell, if that doesn’t work, I can always still do the above. Won’t matter much I think.
The Management Engine firmware is part of the BIOS image indeed. The SPI flash consists of 5 regions: Flash Descriptor, ME, GBe, BIOS & PDR.
There is a very high chance that the method you use for flashing is causing the problem. The modded files are ok, the flashing is problematic though. The way I see it, this .exe will extract the 8MB image onto a usb drive after detecting that you machine is MSI. Let it do that. Take the 8MB image and mod it using UBU. When UBU spits out the modded 8MB image I suggest you use the BIOS flasher (M-Flash as MSI calls it). Do not use any Windows flashers, these are the worst. M-Flash should not cause any problems and if I remember correctly it also uses the HMRFPO message to temporarily unlock write access to ME and update it by bypassing the Flash Descriptor protection. Not that you need this for your mod (only if you wanted to update the ME region inside the 8MB image) but still good to have from MSI.
You can test if the ME is working properly by running MEInfo & MEManuf tools (there are DOS versions as well since you don’t have a working Windows installation). Check the detailed instructions on what to download and how to use the tools to check stability at my ME Thread.
Yeah, I figured that out after your post earlier today, before that, I was under the (stupid) impression it were seperate files. But, that was my fault (= lack of knowledge).
Exactly what you said; that’s how I am going to flash. Though with a sidenote; it’s not possible take out the ‘spitted’ BIOS file from the .exe as you mentioned. Though, no worries, the bootable USB stick with Win 7 embedded on it works great in conjuction with MSI’s Windows flasher (though I would not advice anyone else to use it, for various reasons… It’s Windows after all).
After that has been flashed and I have confirmed ME Version showing up again; I will use the BIOS Flasher from the GUI (M-Flash) with the UBU modded BIOS file. If all goes well, this will solve my Windows 8.1 installation problems, because I seriously think all the problems so far were mainly caused by Intel ME. Don’t know what else it could anymore either. So * crossing fingers *
Oh and I already checked the ME-related thread. And already got the latest version for my motherboard from it (to install it in Windows 8.1 if all goes well).
On the MSI website the latest downloadable version is: 9.5.15.1730 [8.1] And in you ME-list it’s version: 9.5.24.1790 [8.1]
Since yours is newer I will be using that one. Should work without issues I think.
You are now speaking about the Intel ME Driver, whereas plutomaniac was talking about the Intel ME Firmware.
In plutomaniac earlier post, he already posted the version of the ME Firmware which my BIOS uses, therefor I am mentioned the above driver versions which will work with it. I am not planning to update the ME Firmware version from v8.1.50.1456 to v8.1.52.1496. Or is it a major improvement? Maybe in a later stage, when I get everything I might consider it, but for now, no thanks I will pass on updating the ME Firmware.
But anyways, my bad for misreading or causing confusion.
//edit #1
I just did a search for a changelog and I found the following information:
Uhmz… How important is this? Especially the part about Windows 8.1.
//edit #2
Well guess I will update the firmware as well while I am at it. Thanks for pointing out guys.
It’s extremely easy and safe to update the ME firmware. It can be done from inside Windows by running the FWUpdate utility. Instructions at ME thread once again. I advise you to do it, it certainly won’t harm your system. But of course, first let’s see where the problem lies.
- Flashed my BIOS several times (with different RST versions) - Used 3 different USB sticks with 3 different Windows 8 ISO’s - Tested both SSD disks seperately and in RAID 0 (with an USB stick embedded with Win7); both drive are working perfectly - Converted the complete array to GPT - Tried loading RST drivers before installing Win8 - Tested memory with memtest86+ no problems whatsoever - Dunno anymore what else.
Also, as I mentioned all things happen random. I took a few screenshots.
Though it’s every time random, it’s the same thing what is happening;
a) it stops at a random % during file copying sometimes accompanied with an error code. b) it stops at a random % during getting files ready for installation sometimes accompanied with an error code.
Well since I now have almost tried everything the only thing left to suspect is the BIOS in combination with my 2x Gigabyte GTX 970 G1 Gaming cards.
In my MSI Bios you have an option called:
If I enable this option; it will start to complain about my videcard(s). And I get the following message:
Though the weird thing is, is that all GTX 970 should have GOP and/or UEFI support. This is the only thing I can think of which is holding me back to install Windows 8 in UEFI mode.
Maybe I should try to install Windows 8 in legacy mode or something. Anyways, I am all out of ideas at the moment. I also have a EVGA GTX 650 (Physx) card. Maybe I should see if EVGA has released an UEFI BIOS for it and try to install Windows 8 with that card. At least I will know what the problem is.
I checked with Gigabytes website, though there are newer BIOS releases for the videocards (very hard to decipher which version you really need).
One thing is sure though; I won’t be buying a Gigabyte card anywhere in the near future. Worst support ever, contacted them several times about other things, they don’t care, etc. etc. etc. What is also "fun" is when you download their BIOS tool for the videocards, you will need to have a Gigabyte motherboard to be able to flash the cards? LOL. Anyways, I can always flash them manually, but rather not.
//edit
I just ordered 2x EVGA GTX 970 FTW+ cards, instead of the Gigabyte cards (which I will return). The EVGA cards come with UEFI BIOS by default. Tired of Gigabyte all together, because this wasn’t my first problem with them either…!
Thanks for your detailed test report. The results are really frustrating.
Unfortunately we don’t even know until now, whether your problems are BIOS or hardware related. Since you obviously have flashed the BIOS and (re)created your RAID0 array already several times without “cleaning” everything before starting the next test, there may be some residues within the BIOS chip of your mainboard or on the track0 of your RAIDed SSDs, which prevent a proper Win8.1 installation.
That is why I recommend to start the procedure from scratch:
Prepare 2 different USB sticks for a later Win8.1 installation by using the tool Rufus: One for a LEGACY mode (MBR) OS installation and the other for an UEFI mode (GPT) OS installation.
Delete your current RAID array.
If possible, do a secure erase of your SSDs by booting off the Samsung Magician boot CD.
Unplug all storage and optical drives except your 2 Samsung 850 EVO SSDs and make sure, that they are connected to the first ones of the on-board Intel SATA3 ports.
Flash the latest original mainboard BIOS and clear the CMOS.
After having completely powered off your computer for a minute (by unplugging the power cable), power it on again, enter the BIOS and choose the “Optimized DEFAULT” settings. > Save these settings and reboot.
Enter the BIOS again, set the Intel SATA Controller to “RAID” mode and choose the “RST” option. > Save and power off the computer again for a minute.
Power on the computer and create the RAID0 array by using either the LEGACY or the UEFI mode Intel RAID RST Utility. Make sure, that the array has been set as being bootable.
After having done all these preparations, you can start with the OS installation. Since your current X79 system obviously doesn’t fully support the “clean” UEFI mode OS installation (where the “Compatibility Support Module” has been disabled), I recommend to boot off the OS image, which has been prepared for an MBR installation.
If you should succeed this way with the Win8.1 installation, we can exclude a lot of possible reasons for the failure in previous tests.
I actually did clean them. How? Easy; after I noticed an installation of Windows 8.1 failed, I rebooted ran diskpart and used clean, after that I rebooted and deleted the create array. After that rebooted and flashed the new BIOS. I tried secure erase, but it’s problematic. Because it goes into frozen state and I need to open the backside of my PC to remove the SATA cable (and you have to pull the right one). Also doing this several times, it will wear down my SSD’s.
Both SSD’s are always connected to the first two SATA 3 ports (Port 1 and Port 2). I only moved them once (on 1st or 2nd day) to test if the SATA ports weren’t a problem. I don’t have an optical drive, so no need. The only other “storage” I use are the USB sticks with BIOS, Windows, etc. on it (multiple sticks in the meantime).
I understand what you are aiming for; you want to see if I can do a Windows 8.1 installation based on Legacy and with MBR (which is used for Legacy). I will try that on Sunday, I have a busy weekend ahead (especially with Valentine’s day; gone most of the weekend). But yes, I will redo the steps you mentioned or at least the ones which should be done and try to install Windows 8.1 in legacy mode.
I expect / hope the new videocards will arrive here around next week, which are actually equipped with an UEFI BIOS so I will be able to use the Windows 8 Feature (in others words CSM probably) and fix this once-and-for-all.
I will probably report back on this on Sunday (in regards to installing Windows in Legacy/MBR mode). I am pretty confident Windows 8.1 will succesfully install in Legacy mode. Otherwise I will not have a clue left on what it could be, right? We went through all possibilities by then…
(maybe I will have time late this evening, depends on what my girl thinks… she’s already quite upset I have been at my computer every evening so far… lol :P)
There is a better and safer method: Unplug the power cable (not the data ones) from the SSDs for a few seconds and reconnect them.
Still the same problem; I have to open the backside of my PC case. It’s just annoying and not easy to do. But thanks again for thinking along.
Anyways; my 4th (!) USB stick with Windows 8.1 is almost done. And I just noticed it’s set to NTFS. LMAO. :S Oh well. Better I noticed it now, than at home.
Btw: I noticed with RUFUS you have 3 options in regards to the partition scheme;
a) MBR partition scheme for BIOS or UEFI computers b) MBR partition scheme for UEFI computer c) GPT partition scheme for UEFI computer
Why did they do it like that? Why not just option a and c? Those options make ‘b’ absolete imho?
//edit #1
Argh… Now I try to select MBR partition scheme for BIOS or UEFI computers + FAT32, but it says "FAT/FAT32 can only be used for isolinux based ISO images or when the Target Type is UEFI." Pftttt…
//edit #2
Nevermind for MBR ntfs is allowed apparently. Damnit, should have let the USB stick finish. Haha.
